Is death the end?

[Valknor]

Do you believe there is more to life than the physical world, or is this the limit of our existence?

As I get older, I've come to think about this with increasing frequency. I still believe in a living tapestry, in which our lives are interwoven with others, but that only exists in the material universe. Is there something more out there?

[SfcoAwol]

Obviously we are all in the same boat if there was scientific knowledge of it then it would be "common knowledge" of life after death. but I do personally believe there is more out there than just death.

[NotChyoTacos]

I certainly hope there is more than death out there.

[Valknor]

I'm not sure either. I've been reading the New Testament lately, and Jesus repeatedly talks about Hell and the Kingdom of Heaven. The former he says is entered through a wide gate, while the latter is a narrow door. There's much talk about fire, wailing, and gnashing of teeth- it's quite unsettling.

[SfcoAwol]

John 3:15-17
That's my personal belief. There are allot of unsettling things in the new testament but there is also allot of hope.

[Valknor]

I would like to believe that. Perhaps in time I will. As of now I'm still a fence sitter, with no strong convictions in either direction. There could be an afterlife, and a power known as god; or humans could have been very good at creating convincing stories. As I study the new testament, I try to work out what could be true, from what may be made up. It seems most of the work requires a leap of faith to accept as fact.

From a historical standpoint, in order for one to be certain about the things stated, they have to be substantiated. It's true we have the gospels by various authors. But what about the authors themselves? What did they do before they met Jesus? What where their lives like? When did they write their stories about him? How much collaborative evidence is there that the author's are 1. who the bible claims them to be, and 2. telling the truth?

[SfcoAwol]

That's where you choose to put your your faith/belief. Even an atheist is putting their faith into their belief because honestly as much as they like to think their beliefs are backed by science they still dont have rock solid evidence that they are right.
I guess there are 2 main reasons I believe what I believe.
1. From what I can tell they haven't been able to prove the bible to be false. And if you look at some of the events they have been able to show some of what the bible talks about to be true. Example in the location of where they believe moses parted the sea they have found the remains of chariots. Findings like that I feel help me to think if it was right in that area then it gives more validity in other areas that might not be able to be proven. Also to have so many authors from so many different periods of time and halving all the writing's line up as perfectly as the do is incredible all in its self.

2. The other reason I believe this way is I can't find really any other religion that dont require of you to get to heaven. Example Catholicism requires you to give to the church and be a good person to go to heaven. Jehovah's witnesses require you to do works for salvation. Islam is no different ect.
Where I believe that in and of ourselves theres nothing we could do for our salvation and so God bacame flesh for us and gave himself as a sacrifice to pay for our wrongs. The only thing we have to do is accept that gift and our wrongs have been paid for. And it says in the new testament that all you have to do to confess with your mouth and believe he sacrificed himself for you. and you've accepted his gift. And if your interest in looking at these verses for yourself let me know and I can post them for you.
Also the other reason I chose this belief over somthing like say atheism is if you look at it if they are right and I'm wrong then after I die it dont matter anyway I've just lived a more clean life. But if I'm right and they are wrong then let's just say I'm glad I chose to believe the way I did. If you think of it that way your way farther ahead to believe in something. But if your looking for rock solid evidence of "this is for sure the truth" you'll never find it. It will always some portion of faith/belief.

[Valknor]

I've been pondering what you said for a few days, and have done some more research. Your last point does make sense to me- after all, if an Atheist is right, he just disappears- but if he's wrong, he may have to face judgement from a higher being. This brings up another problem I've often pondered, and as yet have not come to a satisfactory solution. There are many religions out there- how does one sort out which one is the true path to salvation? Even within Christianity there must be thousands of sects by now- are they all right, or are some of them leading people astray?

You say that the bible follows history, that's not necessarily proof that it's divinely inspired. If I wrote a story today about a miracle man, I could easily include contemporary facts about my time- in fact that would probably be easier than concocting a fictional world to set my story in. If I had some more people to collaborate my story, many people may believe in it. We've seen many cults in the last century with their leader supposedly performing miracles before their followers. At least one had such a strong hold over his followers, that they committed suicide on mass at his urging.

I'm continuing my study of the new testament, perhaps it will win me over in the end. I'm currently working my way through the book of Mark. So far I think it's pretty hard to believe in a loving god, when he sends the "unprofitable" to hell. Maybe I'm taking Jesus too literally in his parables, and something's gotten lost in translation, because he didn't condemn cripples but rather healed them. Some verses that have disturbed me greatly in the KJV include Matthew 25:29-30, and Mark 9:43-49. There are others which I might post later. But it sounds like God has no use for people who don't profit him, and casts them into the fire. Near the end of Mark 9, it sounds like we are all sacrifices to god, burned as animals where, and perhaps consumed by him as food.

[SfcoAwol]

Sorry for the really late reply. It's been an eventful couple of weeks. I understand how it would be overwhelming with all the different sects in "christianity" or any religion for that matter. I would just encourage you to do some of your own research on some of these religions to see if you can make sense of what you believe to be true. As far as the differences in different Christian beliefs as long as they have the same basic belief of "salvation" then they are based in the same belief. Where they will defer is in how they interpret certain aspects of the bible (as I'm sure you have noticed the bible could be interpreted many different ways just depending on how it is read and comprehended by the reader. Theres a reason that there are people that study it their entire life.) There will be some things that dont really matter either way and you can just deal with. For example my church believes that Christmas is the most Christian holiday there is. I personally believe that it has many pegan ties. But it's not that important so I dont make a deal out of it. But there are others that might look the other way when a deacon cheats on his wife and say "well jesus just loves us all and forgives him". And that's obviously an issue he might be able to apologize and get forgiveness from his wife and church but should at very least lose all positions of leadership.

To answer your other concern about hell jesus does say that hell was made for satan and his Angel's. I dont believe hell was ever intended for us but when we sinned we followed after satan. If you study a little in the old testemate in Isaiah 14:14 satan says. "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" and that was why hell was created for him and his followers.
Now if you look into the original sin from the garden. This is the serpent talking. Genesis 3:5 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
She literally committed the same sin as satan and her sin is what damnd us all. Because of what she did we all inherited the "knowledge of good and evil" and now that we know what's right and wrong we have no excuse. If you follow the rest of the old testemate they had to make animal sacrifices to pay for their sins which was the reason jesus had to come to earth so he could be the ultimate sacrifice so we could go to heaven. Sorry to be long winded I'm just hoping to lay down some background.

[Valknor]

No problem on that late reply, that's actually one of the reasons I decided to go with forums instead of other communications platforms. It's nice to not be under pressure to quickly reply to people's posts, unlike with a live chat application. With forums we can have a conversation that's spread out over the course of many years- there's no rush.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, your advice on choosing the right sect seems to boil down to that most of them are right, it's more a matter of personal taste. So there's not one true sect, but actually many.

I'm not sure about hell. I hear Jesus mentions it more than anyone else in the bible, and he say's a lot of people are going there Matthew 7:13. It sounds like the portion of the population who where saved in his time was very small indeed. But as you say, Jesus created a new deal for those who believe in him.

Also, I'm in the process of trying to sort out Genesis's background. There's a lot of theories floating around as to who wrote it. What's your take?